Blocked femoral artery

[rsder]

Just wondering if you know how long before there is permanent damage when the femoral artery is blocked off. I had a angiogram done in 2000 to see if I heart problems, which I didnt. But when they finished they used some kind of plug to stop the bleeding faster at the artery entry site, and accidently pushed this plug into the artery.

It was 7 days before I could get them see me again, and when they found that they made the mistake, rushed me to surgery to restore bloodflow. I have been suffering with severe pain ever since, but they say I should be fine.

Should I be fine? :confused:

[rsder]

I do know it is a miracle I have a leg, but the doctors act like I should be fine, and free from all injuries. I am experiencing extreme pain that only one doctor has told me is rsd, and all the others have said is not so. They continue to say it is all in my head, or coming from my back in the form of spinal problems.

Now this is weird because when I read the symptoms of lower back problems, sciatica etc. They are pretty much identical to what I am experiencing. Only I just got results back from dexa scan saying I lost 22% of bone mass in my right hip, and they are calling it osteopenia. Ok now if it is all in my head, how did that happen? How long does it take for nerves and tissue to start to get damage that will cause this kind of pain when the blood is blocked off, and how long does it take for this kind of damage to show up?

I know this is hard questions, and I dont mean to put anyone on the spot. I have searched the internet pretty good, and cant find hard answers. The doctors wont tell me. Im starting to think no one really knows.

Thank you so much

Allen

[Diane]

Hi Allen,
Sorry for the delay.
Sounds like a medical problem.. i.e., sounds like the pain is coming from a pathologic problem as opposed to a simple neurogenically modifiable (by PT) problem. All the specific questions you ask related to the pain you have, don't have specific answers to my knowlege; that is to say, they can vary from case to case, from one person's anatomy to another's.

All the best,
Diane

[bernard]

Welcome on the site,

I will have no more clues to add, alas. The medical condition you cited is different from one to other, as Diane told it already.

Hope you'll be fine soon. Good luck.

[rsder]

Thank you so much for the replies. It would explain all the troubles I have in getting treated for sure. I have been in constant pain now for 5 years, and just this year they say it is RSD/CRPS. I thought either the doctors are messing with me, or I have a problem that is not of the norm, and makes it very difficult for the doctors to know what to do with me.

At first I thought they might be trying to cover up that they made the mistake in the first place, and I still feel that was the case with a couple of doctors in the beginning. But I have changed doctors since then, and they also are having a tough time with me. I dont mean to be a difficult patient I just want what any sane person would want, and that is freedom from pain.

I did become worried as I realized that leg was starting to lose muscle tone, and also strength. So I started using the leg more, and making an effort to not baby it, but it still is losing the muscles, and now is losing the bone, as in osteoporosis. The right hip lost 22% in one year, and this is alarming to me! I believe I would not have as much leg as I do now if I babied it, but even with my best efforts I continue to lose the leg.

What you have told me makes a lot of sense in the way I have been treated, and makes me wonder why my doctors dont just come out and tell me that??? I am asking the same questions lol. Thank you so much for the honest replies, this means a lot to me. I hope your pain grows less today, and stays going that way. :thumbs_up

Allen

[bernard]

Allen,

Thanks for your kind reply.

RSD and CRPS are not really synonyms. They share some symptoms but are quite different in their appearance and treatment.

Normally, a RSD is a consequence of traumatism. It is an inadequate reaction of our nervous system against something it thought as threatening. It ends (with/without sequella in 18/24 months maximum). This delay may be reduced with neuromobilizations (neuromodulation) that are gentle manoeuvers which help recovering a normal state in the guilty nerves.

CRPS is another world and more a chronic condition that may be revealed by the traumatism but without a direct link with it. Restoring a graded activity, and a well being is helpful for such conditions.

It remains weird that osteoporosis didn't stop after 5 years but as we said it some medical conditions are out of our scope.

[rsder]

Hi all!

I hope you are doing well, and thank you for your explaination of the difference of RSD and CRPS. I thought they were one and the same, or at least interchangable meanings. On my wanderings of the internet, and appetite for for any information that might relate to the injury I suffered, I found some information on a subject I had never heard of.

"Reperfusion injury" Since the right leg went without bloodflow for 7 days while the femoral artery was blocked by a man made material. Even though there was collateral blood flow, it was not enough to take care of the whole leg, and the lower part of the leg suffered ischemia. I did not lose any toes, or anything, but did lose feeling in a few places (except for pain), and was wondering about this IR-reperfusion injury.

I already new that there could be different kinds of tissue damage from ischemia, but what kind of long term damage can this reperfusion damage cause? Could this be one of the things that is helping me to stay in constant pain? Im sorry if I tend to ask to many questions, and you dont have to answer everything I ask, Im just trying to help my doctors find out what is the problem so they can treat the pain better. If I become a bug, just tell me to cool it lol. :) You all are very generous with your time and knowledge, and I would hate to burn it out.

Hope your keeping warm
allen

[nari]

On the definition of RSD and CRPS - it is my understanding that RSD is the 'old' term for CRPS. That is how it is viewed in our part of the world; ie, it no longer exists as a valid term because of the 'reflex' and 'sympathetic' words.

CRPS1 and 2 are used now, more or less as Bernard defined RSD and CRPS above.
However, definitions always vary in usage from one country to another.

Unfortunately I can't add anything to your problem..it seems feasible that the ischaemia can cause chronic pain.

Nari

[Diane]

If you were to take your leg (and the rest of yourself!:) ) to someone who does slow, light, skinstretchy, sustained hands-on work, that person might be able to assess you and perhaps could handle your leg in some soothing (to the brain) sort of way, which might turn down the threat factor or the sustained nocioceptive factor (presuming that some of your pain might be accessible to/ treatable by such a therapist). It's really hard to say if it would help, but it would likely do no harm, and if you had pain that was of both kinds, centrally sensitized plus some that was peripheral, at least the peripheral portion might be alleviated a little. This would be providing you are in the clear medically, vascular-wise.. It's quite heartening to feel even a minor reduction in pain by getting increased blood flow/more oxygen through nerve tissue.

The difference in pain states would be,
1. The CPRS pain would be from neuropathic "damage" to the nervi nervoum when the leg was hypoxic. It's hard to bring anything back from that.
2. Peripheral pain might be due, for example, to pressure on the leg nerves coming from tightened interfaces (tunnels through which the nerves slide, comprised of muscle and other contractile tissue) that are still isometrically contracted. It's hard sometimes for the brain to know how to "let go" after the threat has gone by, especially if there is some nerve hypoxia creating persistant CPRS. But that sort of tightened up tissue can be persuaded to open if the part of the brain controlling it is "handled" correctly and adequately persuaded. The rest of your body might be treatable this way even if your affected leg is not. Relief felt in some other part of your body might signal your brain that it can lighten up on your leg a little..

Take home point: might help, might not. Hard to say. The whole point is to help the blood flow and drainage, which will optimize your nerves' environment and give them their best chance to feel good. Meanwhile, you could do relaxation and deep abdominal breathing yourself, in lots of different positions, standing, sitting, lying. That is entirely within your own control, and would help your body move its circulation and lymph around better.

All the best.

[uhapt]

Allen,

Thanks for your kind reply.

RSD and CRPS are not really synonyms. They share some symptoms but are quite different in their appearance and treatment.

Normally, a RSD is a consequence of traumatism. It is an inadequate reaction of our nervous system against something it thought as threatening. It ends (with/without sequella in 18/24 months maximum). This delay may be reduced with neuromobilizations (neuromodulation) that are gentle manoeuvers which help recovering a normal state in the guilty nerves.

CRPS is another world and more a chronic condition that may be revealed by the traumatism but without a direct link with it. Restoring a graded activity, and a well being is helpful for such conditions.

It remains weird that osteoporosis didn't stop after 5 years but as we said it some medical conditions are out of our scope.


MSII student, very interested in CRPS, if you have any publication that backs this material, that supports your Rx I would be most greatful.

Dmitry

[bernard]

Hello Dimitri and Welcome,

I must say that Nari lost me with the subject :confused: . As she said definitions vary within countries.

Read some topics for refrences =>

CRPS (http://www.somasimple.com/forums/search.php?do=process&query=crps)

[nari]

Bernard, why are you lost?

The term RSD was abandoned due to its emphasis on 'reflex' and 'sympathetic' but I thought it had been a world wide change. It is not called RSD in this country anymore, but considered the precursor of CRPS ll, hence called CRPS l.

Probably a preferable change, to reduce confusion.

A rose by any other name.

Nari

[bernard]

Nari,
Here is France, the only available term is yet "algodystrophie" and CRPS is clearly a mystery! :sad: